Dr. Polsky's Mailbag
Emotional commentary about the San Francisco dog mauling
Q. I read your writings. I found them quite informative. I am guessing that you are against any BSL as am I. However, we differ on a couple of things. I truly believe that any sign of aggressive behavior is a warning that worse things can and may happen. You seem to say it won't. Is that truly your standing? You say that Knoller was simply unable to stop the dog, bless her heart, she is just a small woman up against a large dog. I definitely think that is total BS.
I am only 5 feet tall. I am also quite disabled with cervical and thoracic DDD. My daughters 110 pound rottweiler went after a 5 year old child in a frenzy, thankfully he was on a chain but he was still quite frenzied and she was only inches from him after he knocked her down, he was oblivious to my screams, I physically pulled him off and threw him to the ground.
I saw the pictures of the hallway. There were cans from the groceries, there was a large jar of Pace Picante sauce, Knoller couldhave grabbed any as a weapon and beat the dog in the head, he would have stopped, or his head crushed but she didn't.
I heard her tale that he jumped up on the lady at her door, but the whole hallway looked like a bloodbath. Had the dog jumped on her at her door and Knoller covered her with her own body as she said NUMEROUS times, then why is the whole hall bloodied?
Bane and Hera both warned Knoller and Noel with their behavior. It does not take a one eyed moron to know that a growling lunging dog is aggression, aggression leads to viciousness, and viciousness leads to much worse. There were NO consequences for the dog in any of the prior incidents, no training, not even a pinch collar which is a must if you cannot control a dog.
You are supposed to be a behavior expert, you above all others should know that if an animal has no control of its behavior, it thinks it is ok. Someone has to put on some brakes. No one did which is why an incident of this type not only was possible but should have been predicted. Any dog be it chihuahua or Pressa canario can lose it for no apparent reason.
These people had the audacity to try and blame the victim!! Of course we should not be allowed to wear perfume . These people showed their true colors in their behavior which was recorded several times. You can downplay the bestiality as you have reported it as just her genital area being explored. But I am 50 and have had dogs all my life and my crotch has never been explored while I was naked. But if there is more that you know nothing about and Knoller had been mounted by Bane, it is no wonder, she had no control and why he became more aggressive.
I would hope you would quit trying to help these kinds of people and start helping the dogs, by placing the blame right where it belongs, on the head of the human who has abstract thinking as well as a higher level of thought processes and communication processes. Then maybe the dogs have a chance.
Cathy Iayra, location unknown
A. This was a case about second degree murder and not whether the dog in question, Bane, would predictably attack a person. There is no question that Bane was aggressive and dangerous by nature, and this should have been known by Knoller, and that an attack on a human would be foreseeable, but the central question in this case was whether Knoller could have reasonably foreseen that Bane would kill a person.
If one looks at the epidemiological and animal behavior literature, human fatalities never happen in the presence of an owner, which is what happened here, and this was acknowledged by the animal behavior expert for the prosecutionat the time of trial, but apparently this was not fully processed by the jury (Knoller at trial was conviced of 2nd degree murder based on implied malice).
It is also important to note, that during the attack Bane was likely in a highly aggressive motivational state, and given his size and strength, and given the lack of physical prowess of Knoller, the benefit of doubt should be given to Knoller who repeatedly said she was unable to stop the attack or control the dog, after the attack began. For example, when pit bulls enter into a state of aggressive frenzy during their attack on a human, frequently the only way to stop the attack is with gunshot.
The bestiality claims made by the prosecution were extremely flammatory, and whether they were true or not, was immaterial because they did not have much to do with the legal questions facing the jurors: second degree murder based on implied malice, or manslaughter. Therefore, presentation of evidence about bestiality was not allowed at the time of trial.
For those who've been following the case, after much legal wrangling, which included the case being heard before the California Supreme Court, Knoller's second-degree murder charge was reinstated in 2009 on the belief that Knoller let the attack continue without making a serious attempt to stop it. Apparently, the basis for this was that Knoller left the scene of the incident to go look for her keys, and she did not immediately telephone for help. Apparently the judge making this decision felt the actions of Knoller were sufficiently callous after the attack started to justify conviction of second-degree murder based on implied malice.
Aggressive Boxer dogs jump-up and hang onto 6 ft. block wall causing concern to property owner
Q. My wife and I recently purchased an investment house to rent in Avondale, Arizona, and have discovered afterward that the next door neighbor has two very aggressive boxers who jump up and hang on to the 6' block fence barking, growling and snarling at me and prospective renters whenever we go into my back yard. The dogs are able to hang on for several long seconds more than chest high. It seems a little bit more exertion on the dog's part could propel them up and over, and consequently, no one will rent this house.
My question is, is there anything I can do besides sell the house at a loss? Anything perhaps added to the fence that can prevent the dogs from getting over, and making prospective renters feel safer. I tell prospective renters about the dogs, and feel if they have children that could be hurt, this is not the property for them. My wife and I could be financially ruined if this situation continues. Perhaps you know of a specific lawyer in Arizona that could help, as well.
Rick Von Dehl, Avondale, Arizona
A. Boxers are certainly muscular dogs and in certain circumstances they can become highly territorial. Given this, I can well appreciate how a Boxer might have the ability, strength and aggressive propensities to jump high enough and then hang on to the top of a 6 ft. block wall for the purpose of locating a target to attack.
Considering that there are two dogs and considering their likely temperamental features, from what you described, this certainly presents a liability risks for the landlord of potential renters. It probably also presents liability issues for the owner of the dogs or the property owner of the location where the dogs reside. In my opinion this is dangerous condition. Steps should be taken to alleviate this danger.
Recently I just finished consulting on a dog bite case in Los Angeles where a similar situation existed. In this case, the dogs involved were adult, male pit bulls, however. The incident in questioned happened when one of these pit bull dogs leaped over a six-foot block wall and grabbed an 11 y.o boy who was probably leaning up against a wall. This pit bull dog, who had a history of aggression near this wall towards children playing on the other side, could well have jumped high enough so that it was able to hang onto the top of the wall thereby allowing it position itself so that it could to grab the child by the shoulder. In fact, this pit bull not only attached itself to the child's shoulder but it then pulled the child over the wall into the yard where it lived. After this happened, it was mauled not only this pit bull but also by a another male pit bull who resided in the same yard. Needless to say this boy was severely mauled. He was lucky to survive. He was rescued by his his mother and another adult who luckily heard the noise of the attack. They quickly responded and jumped into the adjacent yard where the boy was yanked and pulled the child to safety. During the rescue these adults were also attacked by the dogs.
This case settled very favorably for the plaintiff. In my opinion, based on the particulars in this case, the defense argument this case was weak: namely, the dog did not have the ability to scale the wall to pull the child over. Instead, they felt the child may have been sitting on top of the wall rather than leaning against it, thereby provoking the dog to attack.
If I were you,I would talk to people at animal control to see if they could do something effective to convince the dog owner or owner of the property where the dogs reside that steps need to taken immediately to alleviate the situation. If the situation remains as is, then obviously you have the responsibility of informing prospective tenants of the danger that exists.
Question of Provocation
Q. My dog seriously bit a young lady (18 years old) several months ago. The dog was a 100 lb, 5 year old Rottweiler that had never bit anyone seriously in the past (she had nipped people occasionally, but done nothing more than break the skin). My mother warned the young lady not to put her face near the dog's face if she heard the dog growling. While standing on our front porch, the young lady stepped on the dog's paw. The dog growled loudly. The young lady bent down to kiss the dog and say she was sorry. As she was kneeling down over the dog, it turned upward and snapped at her, ripping off much of her upper lip. We had the dog put down immediately.
My question for you is this: From the information given, do you feel that the attack may have been provoked? That is, because the young lady both stepped on the dogs paw, and then leaned down over the dog, Do you feel that the young lady may have provoked the accident?
Jonathan Block, Hillsboro, MO
A. Provocation is a viable defense in many cases provided certain conditions are met. Generally, the defense must establish that the dog in question was of good temperament with no previous history of aggressive responding relevant to the context in which the incident took place. Second, the behavior of the victim immediately preceding the attack needs to be scrutinized. In other words, what exactly did the victim do to the dog immediately before the attack took place. Next, one has to look at the dog's behavior. The argument for provocation become stronger if the dog was in a non-aggressive state, and non aroused, immediately prior to the attack. In your particular case, I would need to assess your Rottweiler's temperament to determine if your dog was provoked by the actions you described undertaken by this 18 year-old girl. The usefulness and believability of a defense of provocation varies from case to case. Note also that provocation is a legal term and not one used in the scientific literature of animal behavior. Finally, you should look at a short article I published in California Lawyer Magazine which mentions citations to case law relevant to this issue.
Value of a photograph of the dog at trial?
Q. I am a 2nd year law student at the University of Saskatchewan College of Law. A number of my peers and I have been having a hypothetical discussion regarding a dog suspected of being responsible for the mauling of a child. The dog has died prior to trial. The question involves the relevance of a picture of the dog at trial. Is the relevance of the picture at trial solely that of aiding the victim in identifying the dog? As you are the internet expert on dog attacks, your opimion would be greatly appreciated.
Nicholas M. Cann, Student at the University of Saskatchewan College of Law
A. A photograph of the dog involved in the incident is always a smart piece of discovery to enter into evidence. Certainly the photo can be used for identification purposes - although one needs to realize that many dogs look alike. Introduction of a photo of the dog cannot address issues about the dog's temperament. Probably the main value of having a photo, aside from identification purposes, is to allow the jury to get a feel for what the dog looked like and this may help in their decision making processes. For example, if it was a large size dog then the jury could well understand how extensive injury to the victim happened.
Animal control office seeks reading material for dog owners
Q. I work as animal control officer for the City of San Jose as a bite investigator. I always am asked questons by the dog owner will I get sued, am I liable, what could I have done to prevent this from happening?. Is there some type of reading material that I can give to the dog owner that can educated them? Most of the quarantine that I do are home quarantines, what is your feelings about that?
Joann Watt, San Jose
A. I have no problem with home quarantine provided that it is done in a manner and that is not detrimental to the dog. Certainly, it is preferred to quarantine in the shelter where often a dog may deteriorate both mentally and physically. Owners with potentially dangerous dog need to be educated in effective strategies for dog bite prevention. The American Medical Veterinary Medical Association recently published the findings of their task force and it addressed this issue in detail. You might want to consider summarizing their findings, make photocopies for distribution, and then pass the photocopies onto owners who you feel need the guidance. (AVMA Task Force on Canine Aggression and Human-Canine Interactions. A community approach to dog bite prevention. JAVMA 2001; 218: 1732-1749. (pdf download).
Animal welfare advocate concerned about the effects of chaining
Q. My interest in dog bites, which can be described as intense, stems mainly from my concern for chained dogs.I had been a volunteer in a local humane society for 4 years, when I made the decision to enlarge my experience in animal welfare by becoming a municipal animal control officer for the next six years . In that capacity, I witnessed the tragedy of chained dogs first hand.
Since that time I have continued work in various areas of animal welfare as a volunteer, including chairing a municipal task force to revise a local animal control ordinance. While I was assembling materials for the task force study, I became more acutely aware of the connection between chaining and the potential for chained dogs to inflict serious or even deadly bites on humans. While my task force work has been completed and a revised ordinance was adopted in 1999, my interest in discouraging the practice of dog chaining and its endangerment to humans continues.
Clova Abrahamson, Bartlesville, OK
A. I too believe that there is a connection, in many instances but not all, between habitual chaining and attack propensities in dogs. Are dogs chained because they are already aggressive by nature or does chaining promote certain kinds of aggression? This is a question that needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis.
Reader offers useful link on dog bite prevention
Q. I have enjoyed your site, it has been informative. I have an observation I would like to make about all the sites that deal with dog bites and dog attacks, that is the lack of any meaningful solution, except one. I have found a site that offers a solution not only to reducing the number of dog attacks but will reduce the number of dogs turned over to shelters or veterinarians to be destroyed because of behavioral problems. For the safety of our children and the welfare of our dogs visit http://www.safek9safekids.co.nz/
James Webster
A. I appreciate your interest in my company's web site. Dogexpert.com it is not intended to offer solutions to the dog bite problem, particularly as it is directed towards children. Nevertheless, this is very important information for parents to have, and I agree with you that the majority of sites out there on the Internet are not very useful in this regard. I have looked at the Web site you suggested and feel that it it warrants inclusion as a link on dogexpert.com. Thank you very much for this information.
Animal control office asks about neck bites
Q. I am the Director for an Animal Control Shelter. I am by no means an expert on behavior, but I have had extensive training. I would like your opinion (would not be used in litigation as there is none)....If a dog attacks the back of a person's head with no provocation, should that be a concern for future behavior? I know when dogs want to kill they go for the neck or the stomach.Could this ever be considered normal behavior?Any information you can give me would be appreciated.
Alisa R Haller, Cedar City Animal Control, Cedar City, UT
A. Certainly any attack by a large dog - a dog that is capable of inflicting serious damage - if it is done without provocation needs to be taken seriously. It really does not matter where the attack is directed to the person's body, although obviously an attack to the head of an adult human can do more damage in most cases than an attack to the chest or head of a person.
You should also note that there is no scientific validity to the belief that dogs have a natural inclination or innate propensity to bite at the neck area of a person during an aggressive episode. Dogs are group living predators and as such have not developed a strong propensity to attack the nape of a victim's neck like cats have. Domestic cats are solitary hunters and because of this there has been selection pressure to develop a neck bite so that they can kill in a quick and efficient manner. Not so for dogs - dogs have been developed from wolves which are a highly social group living species who depend on others to help in the killing of prey.
Attaching leash to collar improperly results in dogs bite incident in Pennsylvania
Q. The problem occured directly in front of my parents home which I was visiting. My mother had taken the dog out to go to bathroom, then handed the dog to me on his leash. A couple walked by, and I restrained my dog as he got excited. My mother had accidentally looped his leash on the wrong ring, so he broke free (which isn't hard to do if it is improperly attached) and ran over to the couple. At this point, I didn't see exactly what happened, but apparently my dog grabbed the woman's fur coat, and her husband kicked him to get him to release it, at which point he bit the back of her leg. After he kicked him twice more, he got scared and ran off down the street. My wife and I then retrieved him. A police report was filed, but I currently live out of state, so I am not sure what will happen next. The victim had never seen my dog before. My dog does get excited when he is on his leash, but has never bitten anyone before. Please let me know your thoughts.
Chris Finlan, Doylestown, PA.
A. In Pennsylvania, strict liability for dog bites does not exist and therefore you would be liable for the injuries inflicted to this person provided that you had sufficient knowledge that your dog could engage in the kind of behavior that led to the injury of this person walking past your property.
It sounds as though you knew that your dog would get excited but it may be more questionable if you knew this dog could bite. For my perspective, since the incident happened in Pennsylvania, if the plaintiff decides to bring legal action against you, the burden would be on him to demonstrate that your dog had the propensity to act to the way it did in the context in which the incident occurred. Another issue certainly has to do with the way your mother put the leash on to the dog - she was probably negligent in this regard.
Database for dangerous dogs?
Q. I am a GIS analyst that puts together a lot of spatial databases and I came across your name on your website you maintain. Do you know of anyone compiling a Dog Bite Database to show where risky dogs live? -State level -County level -National? I have always thought this would be a good database to show the areas on a map in certain neighborhoods.
Deric Morgando Senior GIS & Data Analyst, Explore Information Services
A. I know of no database that tracks supposedly dangerous or risky dogs anywhere in the USA. however, one may have started in the state of Virginia, after a dog bite fatality that took place in Spotsville approximately 3 years ago. I also read somewhere that the state of California was trying to do something similar to this, but I did not know whether or not anything has come of it.
There probably would be difficulty with doing this with so-called risky dogs because how do you define a "risky" dog? Probably the best way to do this would be to get a database on dogs who have been reported to local animal control authorities for attacking people within each municipality (not necessarily a vicious attack), but getting these records from local animal control probably would be difficult.
Contact Info:
Animal Behavior Counseling Services, Inc.
2288 Manning Ave.
Los Angeles, California 90064
Telephone: (310) 474-3776
Nationwide: (800) 605-2227
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